Curse

salamanca · Mar 15, 2006, 08:01 PM // 20:01

This game just suffers from the same hassles every online "RPG" does. People that don't know what the hell RPG really should mean.

WOW has the morons that want to duel/assault those 15 levels weaker than they are, we get the beligerent chumps that toss threats and run away when they see a chance to lose. It's pervasive in the hobby and you can't get rid of it.

But you can beat them. Talk to them in character and only in character. Pretend you don't understand their profanity as you don't speak that "strange language". They can't handle it.

Bu the real trick is this: Never, ever reply, speak to or converse with anyone that can't give their character a proper name. They don't deserve it. It's obvious that any buffon that insists on naming their character "Mastakilla pwn3r" or "Farside warrior/monk/necro" (I hate the guys that use one name and a prof. for 4 characters) just should be ignored. Don't help them, don't trade with them. It'll reduce our headaches.

Rotgut The Unholy · Mar 15, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinRaven

I quit playing Halo & Counter Strike because of griefing...now Guild Wars might make the list as well. I've played for a year now (a bit over really...with BWEs). Loved the game, the new discoveries and PvE....finished the story a couple times (ok 6) and thought maybe PvP might be fun, and it was for awhile. I can see how Factions will renew my interest some....but I'm going back to PvE. Hands down, It's the better game...I can run with henchies and not worry about the absolute crap PvP holds.

The last 3 weeks I've kept track of "leavers" and can honestly say....70% premature leaving is akin to griefing, but the 10% that leave before the fight is really rediculous. Today, a player found it fun to sacrifice himself to death with a W/N build and beg for res, someone I told "well done" after ganking me called me a c*nt and on three seperate occasions, I found myself in the middle of battle using res and having the rezzed player leave immidiatley after I burned my sig. Some of this carries over to team areanas as well as random.

On top of all this, my guild is oddly lacking active members....carefully screened folks who have'nt played for 2 weeks to over a month...Every person who has been promoted to officer has cut and run after getting what they want out of it.

The towns and outposts are full of 13-year-old Hitler Youth wanna-bees throwing racist crap all over the place that is so badly misspelled you can't filter it even if you were inclined to try.

All the things I hate about other online games is here and sadly, it's here to stay...I know "bitch, bitch, bitch...."

Most of the time I shrug it off or make fun of the fools, but I had absolutely no fun at all for the first time ever....suggestions?

fyi people that are like this aren't really like it IRL. I used to greif in CS because it was hilarious getting a rise out of people. Thats why they do it. Pay no attention to it, or youre just feeding them. Yeah it sucks but you encourage them to do it the more pissed you get.

Diablo™ · Mar 15, 2006, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinsei

So PvP's bad because you lack the friends required to field an 8 man team? Here's a clue: Nobody takes the arenas seriously. There's no reason to either. There's no e-peen in winning arena matches, there's no in-game rewards and there's no ladder.

If you're going to claim PvP to be bad, atleast play the real thing first. If you're here to moan about the arenas, well then you're not exactly the first person here to find it pathetic.

All the OP said was that "Some of this carries over to team areanas as well as random.", the rest of his post was a direct criticism on PvE teamwork efficiency. His preference aside, he has made very little remark about choosing RA/TA/HA.

And i'm certain its "few" not "nobody" takes the arenas seriously...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinsei

...your common opponent is a mesmer casting backfire on your warriors and empathy on your eles. Ontop of scrubs, you have those not playing to win (aka griefers), who are having fun by saccing themselves for a day, or leaving matches they know they wont win (usually because of lack of monks). These are the people the OP's complaining about, and these people are doing these things because there's no reason not to. They're not losing anything by leaving (usually just saving time), and they're not gaining anything by staying.

They most certainly have the right to do so, but isn't it a bit selfish don't you think? For the sake of personal convenience you sacrifice your team, how inspiring.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinsei

Your "It's a game so you should have fun no matter what you're doing" logic is unfit in this situation, since most people in RA/TA would most likely rather be doing other things in the game, such as HA/GvG, however most of these people are either just waiting for enough of their friends to come online, or they don't have a team to join.

Perhaps at one point RA/TA was just as serious as HoH/HA/GvG was now, but the idea that one is better than the other has seem to created an escalating effect RA/TA. When one or two players decided that RA/TA wasn't important enough to them... they desert their teammates. After a while others percieve this as a norm, "everybody leaves, so why not? It won't hurt me... just those three other stupid dweebs I called a team earlier.." seems like the end has already justified the means hasn't it?

Elitist? Perhaps, I believe in favors for people who upheld their respect for their own teammates. It certainly beats giving equal favors to those who are willing to fight to defend you and those who will abandon you at the moments notice.

Teklord · Mar 15, 2006, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Anyone that joins in an RA/TA match and then proceeds to kill themselves, stand there doing nothing, quit... the list goes on; those people are simply losers there are no two ways about it. If you go into the RA/TA you are there to support your team, you are there to play to win, and of course you are there to have fun as winning is NOT everything.

Maybe you can tell right off the bat that your team cannot win through that match. That does not serve to give right (or even pathetic excuse) for anyone on that team to simply abandon and leave. You chose to be there, you won't win all the time. You should still fight and do what you can. I was in RA once, and we had a team without a Monk. I didn't care, I had a self heal with me and a couple other defensive skills to help me in a bind. We won the first few matches, then someone quit... don't know why. We still one that match in which we were outnumbered by 1 (4 vs. 3) and the next round we recieved a new player. This group continued to win (without at monk) and we eventually made it to the TA (after 10 wins) where we quite promptly lost. That was a lot of fun, and goes a long way to show you don't need a monk or even a full team of 4 to pull off a win.

It is a shame the ignore list wasn't far larger than it was, for any quitter would make it on that list so I'd know never to be in a group with that person again (save for the unfortunate fate of finding them in RA again).

Edit: for typo.

Diablo™ · Mar 15, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinRaven

I quit playing Halo & Counter Strike because of griefing...now Guild Wars might make the list as well.

Funny how towards the end of every game's life is when griefing begins. It's when the methods of success has been systematically strategized into an easy 3 step program: "Shoot here, Jump here, open this door... run here, protective spirit, shield of judgement, rinse.. repeat......"

Griefing is basically when players are no longer entertained by the mundane 3 step programs of success anymore. Anyone can farm for gold and factions. Every mission already has a set "path" to take, a set "actions" to do.

This is when players take creative liberties and perform spontaneous, and sometimes idiotic things just to bring fresh new entertainment to themselves. Amused by how sporatic their teammates can become, the hot negative feedbacks they recieve, these griefers begin to flourish.

I'm not trying to defend griefing, I'm merely explaining their origins and motivations to do so. The fault lays in a game that severely needs updating (GW Factions?). Sooner or later griefing itself will become boring as well, and if entertainment cannot be readily available to the players, we can only expect even worse and more malicious griefers to appear.

studentochaos · Mar 15, 2006, 09:18 PM // 21:18

For me when I get a griefer in RA I just accept it and hit the enter mission button again after the loss. Their problem really. Did they really have a better time watching the other people play? How many times can this still be fun?

The length of this thread ended up in a long debate about Pve and Pvp and both sides calling elitism on each other. Really I think they are both right. Both sides have a certain level of inaccessiblity and that frustrates those who are not experienced in whatever. Sure SF has the set "oro" teams, but Pvp has its own long set of narrow builds. It isn't that you can't win without those builds, but they have been proven winners so it is easy to reproduce some level of quality.

The only advice I can give on this is to friend people you had a good playing experience with wheter it be PvE or PvP. After I started using freinds I found this game alot more enjoyable for both PvE and PvP. Guilds are a quick way to acheive a friend list, though they aren't as reliable without time. I have come to trust and enjoy my guildies as we did months of GvG now. Sure we had some really aweful games where we got shut out, but it was ok because we had developed a team attitude so we could shake off the loses and better enjoy the wins. Didn't happen overnight, but brought alot more enjoyment into Pvp for me.

Count to Potato · Mar 15, 2006, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinRaven

On top of all this, my guild is oddly lacking active members....carefully screened folks who have'nt played for 2 weeks to over a month...Every person who has been promoted to officer has cut and run after getting what they want out of it.

Why not leave your guild for an active one?

Grimm · Mar 15, 2006, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Yes, it's sadly true that many players in GW are a bunch of idiots, to say the least.

All I can really recommend is turning off local chat, and finding a decent guild. Like ours.

Pi_Numurian · Mar 15, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Amen, I hate leaves

Ken Dei · Mar 15, 2006, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Some points to make:

-RA is the result of professional pvpers being lasy and refusing to set standards of maturity in that arena. I could probably make the supposition that if players refused to "allow" this sort of behavior to happen, it wouldn't. True, you can't MAKE them leave, but you can make them feel so unwelcome they either shape up of ship out.

-If you are fanatically devoted and/or addicted to a multi-player FPS, i.e counter-strike. Please, for are that is decent and good, realize this is NOT AN FPS. People here do not find your trash talk amusing, funny, entertaining, or interesting in the least. They will hold grudges, some will hate you, and overall you will be considered a LOSER.

-In reference to the above. Names like pwntehn00bzors, sirhaxorzlot, and IaMuBeR!!!Shift+1!!! ARE NOT COOL, they are stupid, really, really stupid. Again if you have a name like this you will be considered a LOSER.

-Now here's the logical connection of the two previous statements. If these people hate to LOSE, they should stop acting like LOSERS.

I too enjoyed this game tons when it started and the community wasn't to bad. But like all other online games it is suffering from the griefer armies. I am sick and tired of this filth invading these games. If these people want to be arrogent, garbage-mouth, ignorant little freaks, fine. But stay the hell out of "RPGs." You are not welcome, we do not want you.

People might like to believe that RA is the devoted cesspool of the game where grefiers are "allowed" to reside. Well guess what griefers earned their title because they don't quit and they are never satisfied with anything less then the total corruption of the game.

Perhaps there should be a Guild called GW: Community, for players who are not griefers. With strict standards of behavior that cater to all types of play from RA to Tombs to PvE, no level requirement, with players in pre and post-sear. Maybe it's time we start ostricizing, criticizing, and pushing out these people, instead of saying "it's a game, just ignore it, it will go away." Let's start making them feel as unwelcome as they make us feel.

There should be NO place for griefers. Not in Tombs, not in towns, not in RA. They should not be spoken to, they should not be traded with, they should never get on a team, they should never be able to complete a mission without henching it.

Maybe this all sounds harsh and totalitarian, but they started it. It's time a game's community decided to finish it for once.

P.S. A community ousting greifers has been achieved once. A game called BattleCruiser Millenium managed to hold such tight reins on behavior that griefers to my knowledge, do not exsist. Now, in time the game has gone out of style so there aren't many players left, but the point is, it can be done. Greifers are here because we let them be.

LuLu · Mar 15, 2006, 10:50 PM // 22:50

I like my name LuLu The Monk. Albeit I haven't used it on my main account for probably 6 months. I fail to see how this falls outside of an RP perspective. Declaring your name and profession is quite within the realm of introducing your RP character. While LuLu Wiggin has a more proper 2 name convention, how is that any different than introducing yourself as "Dr. Jane Doe, MD" or " Mr. Billy Bob, Carpenter"? RPing has very little to do with the name you choose for yourself, but rather how you play out that character. I also strongly believe that leveling and stat points have absolutely nothing to do with RP. Strictly speaking, I find PvPers to be more faithful RPers in general compared to their PvE counterparts. While PvErs play their aspect of the game, little of their interactions with other players truly depict how their in game character would behave (granted there is a small population that are true RPers, but that population is very minute). On the other hand, Pvpers ingame characters tend to 'role-play' their characters more accurately. Many times a pvpers in game behaviour does not reflect accurately on their RL behaviour, but are that in-game characters own persona.

Whee, random musings of a pvper.

beanerman_99 · Mar 16, 2006, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Dei

Some points to make:

-RA is the result of professional pvpers being lasy and refusing to set standards of maturity in that arena. I could probably make the supposition that if players refused to "allow" this sort of behavior to happen, it wouldn't. True, you can't MAKE them leave, but you can make them feel so unwelcome they either shape up of ship out.

-If you are fanatically devoted and/or addicted to a multi-player FPS, i.e counter-strike. Please, for are that is decent and good, realize this is NOT AN FPS. People here do not find your trash talk amusing, funny, entertaining, or interesting in the least. They will hold grudges, some will hate you, and overall you will be considered a LOSER.

-In reference to the above. Names like pwntehn00bzors, sirhaxorzlot, and IaMuBeR!!!Shift+1!!! ARE NOT COOL, they are stupid, really, really stupid. Again if you have a name like this you will be considered a LOSER.

-Now here's the logical connection of the two previous statements. If these people hate to LOSE, they should stop acting like LOSERS.

I too enjoyed this game tons when it started and the community wasn't to bad. But like all other online games it is suffering from the griefer armies. I am sick and tired of this filth invading these games. If these people want to be arrogent, garbage-mouth, ignorant little freaks, fine. But stay the hell out of "RPGs." You are not welcome, we do not want you.

People might like to believe that RA is the devoted cesspool of the game where grefiers are "allowed" to reside. Well guess what griefers earned their title because they don't quit and they are never satisfied with anything less then the total corruption of the game.

Perhaps there should be a Guild called GW: Community, for players who are not griefers. With strict standards of behavior that cater to all types of play from RA to Tombs to PvE, no level requirement, with players in pre and post-sear. Maybe it's time we start ostricizing, criticizing, and pushing out these people, instead of saying "it's a game, just ignore it, it will go away." Let's start making them feel as unwelcome as they make us feel.

There should be NO place for griefers. Not in Tombs, not in towns, not in RA. They should not be spoken to, they should not be traded with, they should never get on a team, they should never be able to complete a mission without henching it.

Maybe this all sounds harsh and totalitarian, but they started it. It's time a game's community decided to finish it for once.

P.S. A community ousting greifers has been achieved once. A game called BattleCruiser Millenium managed to hold such tight reins on behavior that griefers to my knowledge, do not exsist. Now, in time the game has gone out of style so there aren't many players left, but the point is, it can be done. Greifers are here because we let them be.

/signed

CyberNigma · Mar 16, 2006, 12:23 AM // 00:23

There's something everyone needs to remember. Since Guild Wars is a pay-once, play-forever type of game, evne people who quit the game have access to it (you never really quit). As such, a person who got bored with it or moved on can come back a year later (oh that's still instealled) and just pass time screwing around with people. The only way to truly get rid of them is to ban them..

AeroLion · Mar 16, 2006, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Dei

Some points to make:
RA is the result of professional pvpers being lasy and refusing to set standards of maturity in that arena. I could probably make the supposition that if players refused to "allow" this sort of behavior to happen, it wouldn't. True, you can't MAKE them leave, but you can make them feel so unwelcome they either shape up of ship out.

I'm sorry but no. "Professional" PvPers? Being lazy and not setting standards? What are you even talking about?

If you mean players that actually have some semblance of what it means to be competitive, then the reason they stay out of RA is soley because it is random. I'll say it again. Random Arena does not attract the cream of the crop in the PvP community because it is RANDOM.

Guild Wars, as much as some people like to claim, argue, and believe, otherwise, is based on team (mostly 8vs8) competitive play. This means that the most skilled people are going to actively ignore the one PvP option that takes no strategy and no teamwork. To go even further, RA play seems to reject strategy and teamwork. It's a clusteredit more often than not, in all honesty.

This is not to say that RA is bad. There are some people that enjoy the aspect of "anything goes" and "no coordination" PvP. That's fine. But understand that's why it repels seasoned PvPers and why it attracts griefers.

Cottage Pie · Mar 16, 2006, 01:01 AM // 01:01

I sometimes go into RA and sac myself to death (4 infuse health one IoW gg) before the game even begins. Am I a griefer? because I certainly grieve.

Why? god knows...The game is so boring, It's PvP based but the combat is so repetative, I.E. if I see a ranger I instantly think

Lame ass trapper

Full of Interupts

Bunny thumper

Degen/runner

Vamp-touch spamming freak.

etc.

And I already know or not if my team can win or loose when I check out the other 3 players (just tab through 'em fast, see what enchants/preps they run). about 10% of matches suprise me, the rest...predicatable within 20 seconds. It's just not my idea of fun, and before you say 'quit the game then', becareful, cos a lot of people already have, and If factions doesn't give PvP a much needed breath of fresh air, guildwars will become a ghost.

Ken Dei · Mar 16, 2006, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by AeroLion

I'm sorry but no. "Professional" PvPers? Being lazy and not setting standards? What are you even talking about?

If you mean players that actually have some semblance of what it means to be competitive, then the reason they stay out of RA is soley because it is random. I'll say it again. Random Arena does not attract the cream of the crop in the PvP community because it is RANDOM.

Guild Wars, as much as some people like to claim, argue, and believe, otherwise, is based on team (mostly 8vs8) competitive play. This means that the most skilled people are going to actively ignore the one PvP option that takes no strategy and no teamwork. To go even further, RA play seems to reject strategy and teamwork. It's a clusterf*ck more often than not, in all honesty.

This is not to say that RA is bad. There are some people that enjoy the aspect of "anything goes" and "no coordination" PvP. That's fine. But understand that's why it repels seasoned PvPers and why it attracts griefers.

Let me clarify, I know your judgement was based on different definitions of "professional"

My opinion of "professional" is a player who spends 80% or more their time pvping, and does reasonably well, i.e. their profession is to do PvP. And believe it or not there are a lot of them in RA, because they are waiting for people, or just want to do random. These were the lazy professionals I was refering to, not the Tombs Elitists, they're a whole other kettle of fish.

Numa Pompilius · Mar 16, 2006, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diablo™

Funny how towards the end of every game's life is when griefing begins. It's when the methods of success has been systematically strategized into an easy 3 step program

FWIW, griefing of this kind has been alive & well since at least the week after GW was released. Leaving was as bad as it is now, but improved a bit after it became possible to unlock stuff with faction.
Of course, it may have been people bored silly of the content already in beta doing it, but I think some people are just natural born a-holes.

The general level of civility has decreased sharply in just the last few months, and got really bad after the PvP weekend. Before the PvP weekend it was quite rare to see people lining up to "i give head lolz" or just seeing how many profanities one can stack in one conversation. I saw my first racist ever in GW around christmas, but have seen half a dozen since.

This on the EU servers; it seems it has always been that way on the US servers - US players please correct me if that is wrong.

Now, maybe this means that a majority of players have run out of content at the same time, but personally I think it means there's been an influx of players with different attitude. Where they come from I do not know... but I suspect WoW. Or, possibly, they're the a-hole brigade, europeans and americans, following the favor of the gods from the US servers to the EU servers.

Ken Dei · Mar 16, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

It is my assumption the EU servers are better then American Servers, from what I've heard, but it's been a steady increase in un-civil behavior on both, if you think 6 racists are bad, try 60, it seems for every 1 griefer on the EU servers, there's 10 or more on the American.

Shadowspawn X · Mar 16, 2006, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote: